Comments on Pastor Marty's Pulpit: Accountability

MARTY HAS CONFESSED.

2009-08-02T15:39:07.794-04:00

It get's worse. Follow this link.

2009-07-31T23:27:59.461-04:00

I am mortified to find that THIS is what "Christia...

2009-07-29T23:56:44.325-04:00

I am mortified to find that THIS is what "Christianity" has become. These blogs and comments are no more than a gossip chain letter that airs dirty laundry and ruins lives. I hope you all stop pointing your fingers and gloating from your high horses and look INWARD! "For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the GLORY OF GOD"! Jesus came to us all...PEROID! It doesn't matter what Bible you read, or what type of worship you choose to have in your church. We are to minister to those who are in need. WE are the body of CHRIST!?!

Marty, It is rumored with several confirming voic...

2009-07-28T10:42:10.556-04:00

Marty,

It is rumored with several confirming voices, that you have resigned from Fords Bush.

Would you care to comment as to why?

Thank you for sharing this blog article. I think t...

2008-02-20T11:30:00.000-05:00

Thank you for sharing this blog article.

I think that the influence that Bob Gray held (and knew it was like a power to him) and the way those who looked up to him (and some that still do as if he is beyond reproach) placed him in some kind of awe because it represented a movement they were part of, and the feelings (emotional) that go with belonging to a movement, come very close to the influence and power, charisma, and magnetism that the Antichrist will one day have over the world. It's dangerous to hold men in such esteem, to laud them and hold them up. They are just human beings and many are not fit as leaders even though someone has put them in power. Jesus never taught us to do this. Yes, there is human respect, but we are always cautioned to be very careful. The Lord spent a lot of time warning us that wolves in sheep's clothing would creep in. We need to be very careful that a movement, or part of a movement, that we make ourselves part of (and this includes all "camps") is not so man-made that we are losing sight of what God has told us. The things Jesus warned about Paul saw in the early church and warned about with tears. Men who came in to harm, not to do good, not to help. Personally, I believe Bob Gray has shown himself to be that kind of person.

The church (Trinity) that continues to deny they did anything wrong, even after those women came forward, illustrate the man-made character of this movement, where God is left on the side while they pretend they have Him in the center. They failed in their responsibility and now they have yet to repent of that, as well. They deceive themselves and those who don't know any better. They are dangerous. They are those we have been warned of in Scripture. If they are not, then did Jesus and Paul warn us in vain? No, but we make it vain when we forget what they said. No man should ever be lifted so high that people look to him more or forget that he is just flesh and blood and not deity. For Gray to tell some of those women, when they were children, that he was "God in this church" shows his mindset and where he was, even early on. I don't think that mindset needs to be explained anywhere other than Scripture because it has plenty to say and warn about regarding that.

Did Shelton Smith ever reply to your letter? For some reason, I am not holding my breath. But I do hope that he will do the right thing.

MartyWas your open letter to Sheldon ever answered...

2007-08-12T15:47:00.000-04:00

Marty
Was your open letter to Sheldon ever answered? Did the Sword ever cover the Bob Gray story or did they ignore?

I share Dan Burrell's skepticism as to whether the...

2007-08-10T15:56:00.000-04:00

I share Dan Burrell's skepticism as to whether there will be a response to your letter to him. Did the Sword of the Lord or Shelton Smith ever respond to your letter and did they ever publish anything about Bob Gray's arrest?

aI am speechless ... I did not know about Dr. Bob ...

2007-02-10T03:34:00.000-05:00

aI am speechless ... I did not know about Dr. Bob Gray. I am sick. Jack says he is 'sick' - WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT JACK I AM SICK OF SO-CALLED MEN OF GOD LIKE YOURSELF COVERING UP SIN IN THE CAMP. GOD NEVER COVERED UP SIN, AND WHEN DAVID COMMITTED ADULTERY NATHAN SAID, 'THOU ART THE MAN'. IT'S ABOUT TIME FUNDAMENTALISTS STARTED EXPOSING INSTEAD OF COVERING UP SIN. THESE MEN PREACH LIKE THEY ARE GOD - THEY TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT RIGHT WITH GOD IF YOU DIDN'T GO OUT SOUL-WINNING Saturday.
WHAT ABOUT Pedophilia, what about adultery, what about heresy, what about church discipline, what about 1-2-3 repeat after me????

I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR A MOVEMENT THAT COVERS SIN AND I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR PREACHERS WHO wave their King James Bibles but fail to preach old-time repentance to lost sinners.

One thing we have to realize - Pastors are people with a gift - nothing more

I see now that just like a President, Pastors need to be kept in check. Why? Because absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Not all Pastors lust for power but many of the Hyles brand do. They want complete control and if they don't get it they will embarrass you, they will humiliate you, they will do whatever it takes to discredit you if you are not one of their YESMEN.

A word for the YESMEN - your weak, pathetic constitutions result in your succombing to the psychological vicegrip of a strong preacher. NOT ME. I broke free from the psychological stranglehold on myself and my family. I broke free before it was too late. Then 6 months later this story about Dr. Gray comes out - truly pathetic

However I really left because of EASY BELIEVISM? I gave my Pastor almost 2 years to answers questions regarding repentance and quick prayerism. He had a Master's degree in theology from guess where, but he could not answer my questions. He responded verbatim from Hyles heretical work 'Enemies of Soul Winning' In there Hyles says no one understands like repentance like he does. He basically says that repentance and belief are the exact same. Really slick just like Lucifer himself!!! What a lie! Then I read all of the oodles and oodles of quotations from the Bible and men of God like Rice, Roloff, and Spurgeon who say that repentance is TURNING FROM SIN!!!

You know that we are in the last days when the Bible Thumpers start changing the requirements of salvation and start redefining the word REPENTANCE. IF THE PLAIN SENSE MAKE SENSE THEN SEEK NO OTHER SENSE.

"EXCEPT YE REPENT YE SHALL ALL LIKEWISE PERISH." Luke 13:3,5

Now look up the word Repentance in the oldest English dictionary you can find. You found it?? Good you just decoded the secret message:

REPENT OF YOUR SIN OR GO TO HELL!

This blog comes from a man who has spent almost 20 years in the IFB movement. I will not spend the next 20 years in the IFB - I can assure you of that!!

Hey, PreachermanMCBC!1Timothy 6:11? YAWN! OK ti...

2006-06-09T10:32:00.000-04:00

Hey, PreachermanMCBC!

1Timothy 6:11? *YAWN!* OK time to review our Bibliology 101 and Basic Hermueies. I believe I a may be safe to assume that your are an "Autorized" man. [Be not offended, I consider that admirable...when properly administered] So, by way of review, where did the BIBLE come from? Yes, GOD. Who breathed the words of scripture into it's pages? Yes, GOD. Inspired in it's whole? YES, by GOD. Preserved by it's Author? YES, by GOD. Who used Paul to PEN the words of 1Timothy 6:11? [Need help?...first letter in the word is capital 'G'] YES, GOD!!! So who REALLY called Timothy a "man of God"? Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!!! YES, you are correct! GOD!!! SO, to you, my dear friend, I STILL say, "the only one in Scripture to ever refer to [Label, Address, or Entitle] a man as "A Man of God" was GOD HIMSELF!!!"
All Glory and Power, by His Grace, to thee be made known, my brother. Peace!

Ive been looking for more information about Dr. Gr...

2006-06-07T00:24:00.000-04:00

Ive been looking for more information about Dr. Gray and just found this page. Im still stunned at what all is happening. I was a freind of Dr. Grays daughter, Dawn.We went to Liberty Baptist College together. One summer while we were doing summer missionary work in Myrtle Beach South Carolina, he came to visit her. I road in the car with Dr. Gray , his wife, Dawn and the youngest son Wayne. Dr. Gray was just like any other dad. He never showed any signs of being a molester of any kind.
I have thought about this time with that family so much since this has happened to Dr.Gray, then I remembered he had signed my bible many years ago at a revival at my home church before I went to college. I got it out, and there were several names there that had signed my Bible. I was almost numb as I looked at the names...I wont mention them because there is no reason to do so. But 4 of the 7 names of men who had been spiritual giants in my eyes had fallen in ways like divorce, affairs and now child molestation. I cant describe the feeling that went through me. I could hear God saying add King Davids name to that list.And what about Noah??
Its God reminding us all , that we are all quite capable of falling into sin. I think we need to be careful how we decide to bring one another "accountable" God is quite capapble of doing this on His very own. Sure we can say that we dont justify what Dr.Gray did. Call it sin, but then let God do the dealings. He was and IS a man of God. Maybe not a perfect one , but obviously none of His men are. David was a man after Gods own heart. He failed miserably.
I think we all do. We just might not fail at anything that is against MANS laws. I just know, that the only one who doesnt commmit sin and wont dissappoint us is Jesus Christ Himself.
Who was it that said the first one of you that is without sin should cast the first stone?

Pastor Marty.The ripples from this will be felt fo...

2006-05-28T03:37:00.000-04:00

Pastor Marty.
The ripples from this will be felt for many months and years to come. The victims will not just be the ones molested, if proven to be true, but the many who will lose faith, withdraw from service and even quit the ministry because of this tragic event. Tragic because of the deep mars this sin will leave in the life of so many.

Your stand is refreshing and I agree with the well-put letter to Dr. Shelton Smith. I only pray that we as IFB will see that this is a call for repentance, revival and a return to letting Christ be exalted in the church instead of man.

As I read all of this in the early hours of this Sunday morning, the word of Paul to the young preacher Timothy came to mind, "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;(2 Tim. 3:14).

Been blessed by the blog brother.

My name is Adam Horowitz. I am a Florida attorney...

2006-05-27T08:15:00.000-04:00

My name is Adam Horowitz. I am a Florida attorney who is representing several victims of sexual abuse by Bob Gray. If anyone has information that may be helpful in bringing these cases, please contact me at ahorowitz@hermanlaw.com or call my office at 305-931-2200.

Adam Horowitz, Esq.
www.hermanlaw.com

FreedFromBondage said:"Remember, the only one in S...

2006-05-25T22:49:00.000-04:00

FreedFromBondage said:

"Remember, the only one in Scripture to ever refer to a man as "A Man of God" was GOD HIMSELF!!!"

You must have overlooked 1Timothy 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Looks like Paul called Timothy "man of God."

Cindy,Did you look up the recipe? God will judge,...

2006-05-25T16:31:00.000-04:00

Cindy,

Did you look up the recipe? God will judge, by His own character, the very moment this offense has taken place. By law - Sowing & Reaping. Whether an accused is exonorated, an abuser let "off the hook", or a molester convicted...who, by the way, are not well received within the prison community, no matter what the age. God's law will always be true, whether we expect things to come out right, wrong, or otherwise. Peace!

Good point, freedomfrombondage...but I was speakin...

2006-05-25T13:44:00.000-04:00

Good point, freedomfrombondage...but I was speaking of how guilt is decided in the earthly realm in which we live. Of course, God is the ultimate judge.

Pastor Marty - Fine balanced article - I will regr...

2006-05-25T13:33:00.000-04:00

Pastor Marty - Fine balanced article - I will regret in advance that your letter of recommendations has fallen on blinded eyes, and deaf ears.- However, your thoughts are to be commended. Please, extend my greetings to Mr. Keever as well.

Dr. Burrell - My that carpet is getting wide on the Northside. Keep calling though. America needs more "Billy Sunday" style finger pointers - BBN, PCC, TBC, and others need a wake up buzz.

Pastor Cloud - as a recovering Indy / Fighting Fundy I have two items of advice. 1.) Get used to vomit, 2.) Watch your back, [OK three] 3.) Guard your heart, and family with ALL diligence. May God Be With You!

Jay C - Here, Here! Bravo! Speak On!

Terry, Don, Joe - Real, Biblical Church discipline would have produced a residence of now 14 years in prison for the Doc.

Dan - How's Mike? Your thoughts are Bible Based. Your observations completely correct. Guilty? Millstone, and Rope, Please!?!

Amy W - So True! SICK! Lower than sick. God bless your Daddy for doing what's right, no matter what! You should thank him.

Matthew - Good Stuff! May I recommend the books: "Twisted Scripture", "The Power of Spriritual Abuse", and "Toxic Faith"

Jill - Sorry, no Pearls for you.

cindy - "Guilt" is for GOD to decide. - ie. O.J. (please see Bible - Millstone & Rope Recipe)

Remember, the only one in Scripture to ever refer to a man as "A Man of God" was GOD HIMSELF!!! We forget that way too often, it is not man's place to label men with that terminology...It is GOD and GOD ALONE who determines this.

I'm glad someone finally mentioned the girls invol...

2006-05-25T13:24:00.000-04:00

I'm glad someone finally mentioned the girls involved. Folks in fundamental churches have no clue how to deal with these problems...and those girls needed professional help and I trust they even now will seek out that help. I taught school at TCA in 74-75, third grade, and had the sister of one of the accused in my class. Later, at age 53, I found out that my own brother molested me as a child...I have never remembered it and still don't until this day, my mind had totally locked it away. But, it still had an effect on my life without me knowing why I did the things that I did...had a baby out of wedlock, have difficulties with relationships with men, and have a weight problem (the statistics being 75% of overweight women were molested as children). The church definitely owes these women an explanation and apology, and should pay for any therapy they need. It probably would have helped Denise a great deal if her father had just told her that he had confronted Bob Gray with what she told him...there was after all someone who fought for her and believed her. Churches/pastors need to stand up for what is right...don't worry about the church, the man's testimony, etc...if it is God's work, then God will work it out. ALL things work together for good.

My first exposure to Bob Gray's ministy was shortl...

2006-05-25T12:45:00.000-04:00

My first exposure to Bob Gray's ministy was shortly after my conversion at a conference in Savannah in 1975. No doubt he has been used by the Lord in many ways and we should pray for complete repentance, full confession and restitution to those hurt by his sin. If TBC is found to have convered his actions it should be brought under the full weight of its sin also. They apparently failed to protect these children and to warn others of a sexual predator in the church. That is a serious breach of both spiritual oversight and the fiduciary responsibility of the leadership.
It is irrelevant how old Bob Gray is and what his physical or mental condition may be. He was in the position of shepherd and was in fact a predator.
What about his victims?? They have carried these scars for years and who knows how this may have damaged the cause if Christ in theer hearts. Bob Gray and TBC, if found to be guilty and negligent, should be held to the fullest accounting of the law.

Pastor Marty, I commend you for not only for showi...

2006-05-25T11:33:00.000-04:00

Pastor Marty, I commend you for not only for showing some real wisdom, but also some real courage in the steps you've taken.

This is a horribly sad story, and the photo's of an elderly and sick man being arrested are indeed heartbreaking. But if he is guilty (and again, that's for the courts to decide), we have to remember that justice--and the law of sowing and reaping--are no respecter of persons, regardless of age.

The whole story, in all its aspects, just makes me really, really sad.

Let us not forget that we are dealing with a man.....

2006-05-25T01:37:00.000-04:00

Let us not forget that we are dealing with a man...just a man...who is 80 years old. He has Parkinson's Disease. Yes, he did admit to some upspeakable crimes. But, did anyone think of his age and the effect of Parkinson's disease and the mind. This is a short print from a website. You can find all kind of things when you look up Parkinson's diseases and the mind. http://www.helpguide.org/elder/parkinsons_disease.htm
Approximately 20% of people with Parkinson’s disease will develop dementia, usually after the age of 70. In general, there is a 10 to 15 year lag time between a Parkinson’s diagnosis and the onset of dementia, which typically occurs years after the motor skills begin to be affected. Signs of dementia in Parkinson’s patients include:
memory problems
distractibility
slowed thinking
disorientation
confusion
moodiness
Slow response to questions
On top of this remember Dr. Gray was questioned by police (worldly police) that stated boldly that they are treating this "as if it had happened 20 minutes ago". Someone needs to put themselves into the shoes of Dr. Gray as an old man with Parkinson's Disease being grilled by the Police for a moment. In my opnion, most healthy adults who go thru a police grilling could admit to things they did not do simply because of the PROCESS.

SOMEONE OUT THERE STOP AND THINK AND GIVE DR. GRAY THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!!!! HE IS 80 AND HAS PARKINSONS DISEASE....WAS HE ACCUALLY AWARE OF EACH AND EVERY STATEMENT....I BELIEVE WE WILL FIND OUT...UNTIL THEN, I BELIEVE THAT IN AMERICA THE TERM IS: INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!
Jill Young

Let us not forget that we are dealing with a man.....

2006-05-25T01:35:00.000-04:00

Let us not forget that we are dealing with a man...just a man...who is 80 years old. He has Parkinson's Disease. Yes, he did admit to some upspeakable crimes. But, did anyone think of his age and the effect of Parkinson's disease and the mind.
This is a short print from a website. http://www.helpguide.org/elder/parkinsons_disease.htm
You can find all kind of things when you look up Parkinson's diseases and the mind.
Approximately 20% of people with Parkinson’s disease will develop dementia, usually after the age of 70. In general, there is a 10 to 15 year lag time between a Parkinson’s diagnosis and the onset of dementia, which typically occurs years after the motor skills begin to be affected. Signs of dementia in Parkinson’s patients include:
memory problems
distractibility
slowed thinking
disorientation
confusion
moodiness
Slow response to questions
On top of this remember Dr. Gray was questioned by police (worldly police) that stated boldly that they are treating this "as if it had happened 20 minutes ago". Someone needs to put themselves into the shoes of Dr. Gray as an old man with Parkinson's Disease being grilled by the Police for a moment.
In my opnion, most healthy adults who go thru a police grilling could admit to things they did not do simply because of the PROCESS.

SOMEONE OUT THERE STOP AND THINK AND GIVE DR. GRAY THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!!!! HE IS 80 AND HAS PARKINSONS DISEASE....WAS HE ACCUALLY AWARE OF EACH AND EVERY STATEMENT....I BELIEVE WE WILL FIND OUT...UNTIL THEN, I BELIEVE THAT IN AMERICA THE TERM IS: INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!

Marty,If you're writing LBU, these folks also did ...

2006-05-25T00:07:00.000-04:00

Marty,

If you're writing LBU, these folks also did the same thing:

http://nationwidefellowship.com/

http://www.westcoastbaptist.edu/featured.greatmen.asp

Google cache will still show Gray's pic in both places.

Great post Pastor Marty! I grew up in a church th...

2006-05-24T21:31:00.000-04:00

Great post Pastor Marty! I grew up in a church that covered the sins of a powerful pastor. Although the acts were not nearly what Gray has been accused of or admitted to, my IFB heavyweight pastor refused to even acknowledge any wrongdoing on his part. Pride and arrogance have been front and center for far too long among IFBs. What horrible damage can be done by those who not only choose to commit such terrible acts but then refuse to repent of the sin, refuse to forsake the sin, and refuse to even attempt to make restitution for the evil done. No doubt about it--we ought to hold ALL leaders to the Biblical measure of "blameless" and not just a select few.

Matthew

Great Post. Very true! I appreciate you taking a ...

2006-05-24T19:28:00.000-04:00

Great Post. Very true! I appreciate you taking a stand on this issue. It is needed.

I have also written to Dr. Neal Weaver, President ...

2006-05-24T18:26:00.000-04:00

I have also written to Dr. Neal Weaver, President of the Louisiana Baptist University. Their website featured Dr Gray on their honored alumni page on Saturday but by Sunday the picture and bio had been removed without a word.

I told Dr Weaver he had a responsibility to the alumnus and students of LBU to at least explain why they could no longer promote Dr. Gray.

I wrote a similar letter to Max Barton at Peoples Baptist Church near Atlanta. They host the national Independent Baptist Fellowship which replaced Southwide. Last week Dr Gray's picture was on their website as a featured speaker and now... you guessed it.

I understand that these men wish to distance themselves from this mess and disassociate from Dr Gray. However, simply acting as if he never existed is not the answer.

This issue needs to be addressed Biblically, compassionately, and seasoned with God's grace ... but it needs to be addressed by those who promoted him.

Comments on Pastor Marty's Pulpit: Accountability

MARTY HAS CONFESSED.

It get's worse. Follow this link.

I am mortified to find that THIS is what "Christia...

Marty, It is rumored with several confirming voic...

Thank you for sharing this blog article. I think t...

MartyWas your open letter to Sheldon ever answered...

I share Dan Burrell's skepticism as to whether the...

aI am speechless ... I did not know about Dr. Bob ...

Hey, PreachermanMCBC!1Timothy 6:11? *YAWN!* OK ti...

Ive been looking for more information about Dr. Gr...

Pastor Marty.The ripples from this will be felt fo...

My name is Adam Horowitz. I am a Florida attorney...

FreedFromBondage said:"Remember, the only one in S...

Cindy,Did you look up the recipe? God will judge,...

Good point, freedomfrombondage...but I was speakin...

Pastor Marty - Fine balanced article - I will regr...

I'm glad someone finally mentioned the girls invol...

My first exposure to Bob Gray's ministy was shortl...

Pastor Marty, I commend you for not only for showi...

Let us not forget that we are dealing with a man.....

Let us not forget that we are dealing with a man.....

Marty,If you're writing LBU, these folks also did ...

Great post Pastor Marty! I grew up in a church th...

Great Post. Very true! I appreciate you taking a ...

I have also written to Dr. Neal Weaver, President ...

Hey, PreachermanMCBC!1Timothy 6:11? YAWN! OK ti...